CommentsI love free-for-all Friday, too! To answer your question, I usually get so caught up in the story that I don’t notice things that might be wrong — unless they’re so glaring that they take me back out of it. So I guess I have a very high tolerance. I’ll add a question of my own: I’m thinking about tackling a synopsis for my first 90K-word single-title story. (I’ll need one when GH time rolls around again.) How do you guys go about writing your synopsis? Chapter by chapter? Just hitting the salient points? I’m wondering if my first synopsis (6 pages for 63K in “Operation Snag Mike/Brad”) was too long. I don’t really want a 9-page one — it’d leave that much less room for my actual entry. Help! I used to write my synopsis chapter by chapter, Arlene. I wanted to make sure I didn’t miss anything important. But now when I write them, I detach myself from my book and pretend I’m telling someone the story. When I do it that way, I hit all the major points and it’s also more interesting. I’ve never had a synopsis longer than five pages or shorter than two. I got by with a 3 page synopsis in the GH. I took a workshop on writing a synopsis, but I do believe my face was scrunched up in one of those huh? faces the entire time. I think the instructor even asked me if I was feeling ok. I have the handout…somewhere. All my manuscripts have about a 3-4 page synopsis. My UNDERBELLY synopsis was 10 pages long, and I think it was twice as long as it needed to be. I’ve heard if your manuscript is 100,000 words you need 10 pages, but I’ve never gone there. I have admiration for people who can write a 10 page synopsis. If someone held a gun to my head or a contract, I’d do it.  CJ Chase says: I keep my synopses short — just the major conflict, turning points, resolution. I’ve tried longer, but they just got confusing. I decided too many details give an editor more reasons to reject. I’d rather the editors read the book to see how I handled those hot button issues before rejection out of hand. Mine usually come out at 3-5 pages (doubled spaced in courier). I don’t even worry if things are slightly out of order from what they appear in the book. Now you could be like my cp — she writes really long synopses. Really long. Like 85 pages. Single spaced. In Times New Roman. She realized a couple years ago that she basically writes a short version of the entire book, then writes the full (with dialogue and such) version. A friend of mine does that as well. Seems like a lot of extra work to me but it works for her. She basically uses the synopsis as long outline.  Elisa Beatty says: I think 2-3 pages for a synopsis is ideal. People don’t want to read more than that. They want an overview of the story, and that’s about it. (Personally, I’ve never read a synopsis longer than that that didn’t feel like a SLOG.)  Beth Langston says: I had to write a 2-pg synopsis for a contest. It was a great exercise because it makes you really cut to the bare bones. A paragraph about both hero and heroine. Two or three major turning points. Black moment. Resolution. I wrote it backwards. Here’s the black moment and resolution. What does the editor need to know to understand this? Okay, now what does she need to know to understand the black moment? Even if you don’t write the synopsis backwards, it can help you revise it.  Liz Talley says: I have a pretty high tolerance for mistakes, especially when someone is trying to write a city. It’s hard to get a bead on a city or area if you haven’t really lived there. I get everyone thinks Louisiana is swamp and we only eat gumbo. But sometimes, it’s like. Jeez, we don’t paddle to work in pirouges. I write in Regency and I’m not nuts over errors like some are. I mean, come on, it’s likely she wouldn’t have dressed like a man and get in a tevern brawl. But she could have…. Liz Talley says: oops. I menat it’s not likely. And that would be a TAVERN. It’s still early. Liz Talley says: I seriously need to proof. Duh. Have you been drinking, girl? A little something something in the coffee to get you going? CJ Chase says: Maybe she was at the tavern researching? Liz Talley says: Haven’t started yet…but the day is very young. Wait. I haven’t had coffee. I think I know the problem Oh, I love a good tavern brawl, or even a tevern brawl. And when the story is good and the action is flowing, I don’t even notice the mistakes. But I do become more critical when I’m bored, so guess that’s the trick. Keep the reader in the story and not much else matters. Liz Talley says: On the synopsis. I just send a 6 page synopsis into my editor for the book I’m writing now. Word count is 66,000. Six pages fit nicely, I think. It it were a much longer and complex book, I think you could go up to eight pages, maybe nine. My .02. Elisa Beatty says: I’d imagine, for an editor you’re actively working with, a synopsis that long is best…. when I said 2-3 awhile ago, I meant for contests, or initial queries. I’ve got one I’ve been puzzling over: How do you write likeable but dark heroines in series romance? I’m interested in writing about strong women who are lonely, damaged, and generally screwed up, but those kinds of people are often intentionally self-isolating, which leads to bad social behavior. I absolutely love following these women along the path to love, but in the beginning, they might be a little…cold, rude, arrogant, and stubborn. Also, why do heroines have to be good at their jobs? Can’t I write about a well-meaning but bumbling female spy? Yes, I’m so sick of the over acheiving, highly motivated doctor, lawyer, cop, FBI, CIA agent (pick one) who works 80 hours a week and has no time for love until bad boy hero “A” falls from the sky, his strong thighs wrapped around a motorcycle. (any similarities to actual characters is merely a coincidence) Come join me on the dark side, Jamie, where bad girls, slackers, and down on their luck, hapless gals have yet to realize their true potential and meet the men who hate themselves for loving them. Everyone has a story – some should not be told – but I do it anyhow.  Shea Berkley says: (giggle, snort) Too funny. I’m thinking we’ve got to make the bad girl likeable by giving her a save-the-cat moment, just like we do those bad boys. Give her something that connects her to the reader who is more likely not a bad girl, but always wanted to be one. Yes — I think I need to do this earlier. Like, right away, before she drops the ball at work or cuts a guy off at the intersection or fails to hold the door open for the little old lady. Or gets loaded on Jaeger and makes out with a guy who is NOT the hero. Maybe, in a fit of selfishness, she fails to hold the door open for the little old lady, but then feels so badly about it that she turns around and helps the lady to her car and loads her groceries up for her. Like, she’s a bad girl, but can’t quite let go of her inner good girl, ands ends up taking one step backward and two steps forward on every page. Though I rather like good girls with an inner bad girl, too. That would definitely work for me, Shea. I like the dark characters. Or showing some vulnerability, then I connect right away, and you’ve got my sympathies.  Darynda Jones says: Excellent idea, Shea! Those save-the-cat moments are priceless. Nice! Elisa Beatty says: “thighs wrapped around a motorcycle.” Love it!! Send him over here!! Man, I love a good pair of thighs. Fabulous image! Liz Talley says: Perfect for Friday night! Kelly, I’m thinking I need to read that book. You crack me up! YES! I am not alone. The challenge I’m giving myself is to bring the truly imperfect heroine to series romance. I’m not sure it’s possible. My current sub with Sil Rom Sus features a heroine who I’ve toned down quite a bit, but I don’t know if it’s enough. If it’s not, I’m shelving that project. There’s only so much I can change before I may as well write it as a different book. “Come join me on the dark side, Jamie, where bad girls, slackers, and down on their luck, hapless gals have yet to realize their true potential and meet the men who hate themselves for loving them. Everyone has a story – some should not be told – but I do it anyhow.” I really need to read “Lily in Wonderland.” This is exactly the sort of thing I like to write and read. Poor Lily had a hard time on the contest circuit. But my editor kept assuring me she was likable. A cruel joke perhaps. We’ll see. Darynda Jones says: Kelly, that means NOTHING! I couldn’t get anyone to like First Grave. It did horibbly in contests save one, the GH, squee. So don’t take any of that too hard. Oh, Kelly, you could write erotica. The “strong thighs wrapped around the motorcycle” is warming me up here in chilly Canada. I refuse to write the “I don’t have time for love” story. Maybe that’s what the character thinks, but there’s gotta be more to it than that. I also refuse to use the word “gaze,” and I really try to avoid “glare.” I once heard an editor for the line I’m targeting say, specifically, that she hates the word “gaze,” and I decided then and there to never use it. I know it’s a little silly, but it forces me to be more creative, I think. If I can’t gaze or glare, what’s left? Darynda Jones says: I’ve heard that too, Jamie, and I’m with Kelly on this. What else is there??? You can’t use eyes because you get all kinds of anatomical impossibilities that, even though they are metaphorical, aparently throw some readers out of the story. So then what? Darynda Jones says: Okay, how about these: (and please excuse the spelling) I’m trying to be more creative too. lol Shea Berkley says: LOL, Darynda! Chicka, you have some serious word addiction going. Darynda Jones says: I do, huh? Love those thesauri! lol Jamie, do you ever watch Bones? In the first season, she was cold and rude and a social moron, but they let us see some of her vulnerabilities and I liked her right off. I do think it needs to be done right away though, before we throw down the book–or flip the TV channel. Bev, I think I’d love “Bones.” I’ve heard great things about it. It’s on my list of series to watch one day! I’m very selective with my TV watching. I only pick up a new series after careful contemplation. I’m a dork, I know. I just like to protect my free time, and I watch a heck of a lot of TV as it is. That said, I’ve recently fallen head-over-heels with “Castle,” which I hear shares some of the same dynamics as “Bones.” I plan on getting “Bones” DVDs from Netflix soon, perhaps when we’re done with “Firefly,” which we started last night and LOVED. —-> It’s on my list of series to watch one day! Jamie. You MUST. One of the things that I like most about “Bones” is that the main character, rational forensic anthropologist Temperance Brennan, writes best-selling fiction on the side. Another thing is David Boreanaz – better looking now than in his “Angel” days, and not nearly as angsty. My daughter had pneumonia and we rented the first season of Bones. I didn’t plan to watch ANY of it but was drawn in. She’s not your typical heroine. I haven’t seen any shows other than the first season so don’t know if her people skills progressed much but she was so bad, she wasn’t supposed to talk during interviews. Beth Langston says: Love Castle. It’s just great. Nathan Fillion is my new favorite actor. And the girl that plays Becket–wow. Castle is one of those shows that has everything. Mystery, romance, humor, drama, pain. The MC is a writer–which totally appeals to me and they slide in some great inside jokes. I love how Castle and Becket gaze into each other’s eyes. Seriously, about the whole “gaze” thing… If we are not allowed to say “Their eyes met” , what is wrong with saying “Their gazes met” ? If you can’t use either phrase, what do you say? Darynda Jones says: I LOVE Castle. One of my favs. Shea Berkley says: Yes! Though I wouldn’t say Bones is a bad girl. She’s very analytical. She doesn’t mean to be mean. She’s insensitive, completely ignorant regarding peoples feelings. Booth has had to step in and interpret for her and interrupt her all the time. Great example, Bev. CJ Chase says: Factual errors — it depends. A small one here and there I’ll often let go by. No one can research every detail and still have time left to write books. However, too many errors, and I start to become annoyed with the author. Feels too much like the author couldn’t be bothered to spend the extra effort to try to get it right. And then there are the big factual errors or factual errors that affect the book’s entire premise. Just read a book recently (well, started it, anyway) where the hero’s father (an English nobleman) put in his will that the title and estates were to go to another relative instead of his eldest son. Um, no. Not possible. Titles and entailed property can’t be disbursed by a will. That’s why we have all those stories about heroines being left destitute when dad died, and his entailed estates passed to some distant relative. The rest of that book was ruined for me because I knew the entire story (the hero’s journey after being dumped on the streets without a farthing to his name) was based on a flawed premise. I’m with CJ on the “it depends” bench. My pet peeve is technical detail – computers, labwork, and the like. I remember taking a workshop with Jenny Crusie and Bob Mayer a couple of years ago, and something Jenny advised really stuck with me: “Never provide details you don’t have to.” Seems to me that this techique might also help prevent factual errors. I like that saying, Tamara: “Never provide details you don’t have to.” If we don’t get into trouble, we don’t have to worry about getting out. I guess Dan Brown didn’t take that workshop. I just finished “The Lost Symbol.” I thought it’d be a fun, wild ride, right? No. Not really. It’s like Brown wants us to know that he did his research and think of him as a Very Serious Writer. I like learning things as I read fiction, but I don’t need to know how many rooms are in every building he mentions. Or when it was built. After a while, it’s neither interesting nor necessary. All it does is slow the pace. I couldn’t finish that book either. I like my fiction to be easy reads and if it’s too much like a manual, it’s out. Easier to watch the movie. Thanks, CJ. Yeah, those big factual errors can really make you question what’s going to be coming along in the rest of the book. Especially if it’s a whopper early on, before you’re really hooked. Shea Berkley says: Sometimes, it’s not even that the research is wrong, but that the writer isn’t relaying the information well enough that pulls you out. I judged a story where the writer was trying to describe a room, but it was so muddled, I couldn’t picture it. Unfortunately, the room was a big deal to the hero, so when she started saying how much of a comfort the room was to him, I couldn’t follow. Totally wrecked the story for me. When it comes to judging, and I come across questionable research, I’ll usually let things slide and mention to the author she may want to recheck her facts. Even when I’m absolutely positive I know she’s wrong, I’ll let it go and usually give out a resource that I’ve found useful. Here’s the problem. When judging, it’s not my job to delve into whether or not the facts are correct. That eats up a lot of time. I want to be swept away by a story. If I am swept away, then I’ll forgive a lot of inaccuracies, but still encourage fact rechecking. When it comes to reading a pubbed authors work, that’s when I get a little more picky. First, I paid to get a thought out, well-researched book. If there are huge problems with research, I’ll most likely never buy that author again. Usually those cases are where the research impacts the story line and pulls me out because I can’t believe what’s going on anymore. It usually has nothing to do with whether or not they used pewter or iron or gold plates, or when a word came into existence. Unless it’s too modern like, “Dude, where’s my warhorse?” I’m gonna let it slide if the story is humming along.  Shoshana Brown says: >> “Dude, where’s my warhorse?” LOL. This is why I can’t write regency. I use the word “dude” way too much. Darynda Jones says: I put that on my FB page. Too funny, Shea!!! Beth Langston says: I read a story once with a Navy pilot and got thrown out because he would do something a military officer would never do. Possible, yes–but really? No. Then I found out the author was married to a Navy pilot–and I’m thinking, wow. I was in the Air Force. Maybe I was wrong. Very strange. THe research had to be good and it still didn’t match what I believed reality ought to be. Fortunately, this has informed my ability to judge. I don’t question research unless it’s outrageously wrong. As far as military heroes in stories–I just never read them any more. Trying to work with perception versus reality can be tough. At a racetrack, horses are always mounted in the barn, yet in pleasure riding, that’s a no-no. It’s often easier to tiptoe around rather than risk losing a reader or even worse, go into a long boring explanation of why something is being done. Interesting, Bev. I do Western Pleasure and we always groom and tack up in the barn, but then we lead the horses to the arena before mounting. It would have never entered my mind that riders in other sports do it differently. Which is a good reminder for contest judges to tread softly when it comes to judging someone else’s research. Exactly, Tina! I would be horrified if my daughter mounted in the barn (she’s hunter). Shea Berkley says: I’m married to an AF fly boy (retired now) and the one thing I know is not all military rules apply across the board. Nor does jargon. A Captain in the AF is not the same as a Captain in the Navy. Beth Langston says: My sister was in the Navy. I used to tease her that I reached Captain before she did. Of course, she retired as a Captain–which is way more money than the AF kind. I get to cross check military facts within my family. Navy sister. Army brother (who started out as a Marine.) Coast Guard cousin. My dad and I–Air Force, the service that took a chill pill. I entered a contest once where my teen MC had to do community service with Senior Citizens. The contest judge said, “I’ve been involved with retirement communities in the Northwest for 20 years. It is clear you have never been in one. Do your research, honey.” Well, okay. I’ve done volunteer work with senior citizens for 30 years in the South. I don’t know; but perhaps Montgomery and Seattle don’t do things in identical ways. Boy, did I learn a lesson. Never assume you know everything there is to know on a subject. A friend of mine is a psychiatrist who had a contest judge say a certain mental illness wasn’t believable (this was an illness she was an expert on). I think judges sometimes try to “help” too much. On the flip, I read a lovely historical novel recently. I couldn’t question her historical knowledge, but it was a little like watching the History channel and I couldn’t find the remote to change to HBO where I could watch something blow up. Darynda Jones says: “Dude, where’s my warhorse?” I can’t stop giggling. Holy moly. I think I react more strongly to factual errors if it is something that is 1) very easy to check & 2) of personal importance to me. And if you get me annoyed enough, I blog about everything you did wrong. I grew up in Alaska & I realize it’s an exotic location and everyone is curious about it, so it makes a sexy setting, but it isn’t hard to figure out there are 5 commercial flights a day to that “completely isolated” Alaskan town you picked to set your murder mystery. Make up a fictional town if you don’t want me popping over to Expedia to check on the daily flights that supposedly only come once every two weeks. My family is from Hawaii. I spent a chunk of my life there. And there is no “B” in the Hawaiian language. So that fictional Hawaiian Island with the “B” in its name? You lost me, before you even tried to convince me a local girl would actually put on four inch heels to go walk on the beach (without breaking her ankle). And I’ve played pinochle with my family my entire life. So when Percy Jackson plays pinochle – a game whose rules are easily available online – and it seems like he’s really playing mutant poker instead… So easy to check. Those mistakes are just lazy and I think you should have enough respect for your reader to at least do a quick google search if it’s not something you personally know. Because to someone else it will be personal. Shea Berkley says: Huh. I know nothing about pinochle so if there were any inaccuracies, I didn’t notice. I would’ve been just as happy to read they were playing cards and not know specifics, though it’s nice when a writer is specific. It adds to the realism … except when they get it wrong. Bummer, Vivi. Now every time I read Percy playing pinochle, I’ll know in reality, he’s being deceived. It’s not pinochle at all, but a faux game that demented centaur and drunk demi-god have concocted to dummy that boy down. —–> So when Percy Jackson plays pinochle – a game whose rules are easily available online – and it seems like he’s really playing mutant poker instead… Paranormal Poker! I would have been totally willing to accept it was a mutated godly version of pinochle, except for the fact that Dionysus specifically says pinochle is a human construct – like Pac Man. Makes me wonder what his version of Pac Man looks like.  rita says: NYT best selling thriller author. When hero got out of his vehicle it was a pickup when he returned and slide behind the wheel it was an SUV. The powder being used to drive people insane was pink and then it was yellow with no reason given for the change. Where is the editor? With research, I tend to be pretty forgiving about mistakes, unless it’s something I know a lot about, then it sucks up every bit of my concentration. I watched a movie once that was supposedly set in Brazil, and yet every single one of the “nationals” spoke Spanish (Brazilians speak Portuguese). I could not get past that huge glaring error. I couldn’t believe they’d spent all that money to make a movie without checking out that one fact (or maybe it was just cheaper to hire Spanish speaking actors).
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Wow! As a Regency writer, I worry about that ALL the time… I don’t know if there’s a more fact-crazy readership out there, jumping on authors because somebody might have said “vanilla custard” in January of 1807, but NEVER NEVER in December of 1806. (I made that particular factoid up, by the way. No cranky letters, please!)
Personally, I’ll be patient if the overall story is good. I’ll even ignore glaring plot contradictions (as in “wait, why is she acting like she doesn’t know where the secret plans are? The hero told her where they’re hidden two chapters ago….”) if the general narrative drive is strong enough.
But writers who really know their stuff, and really have the plot straight….I LOVE that. I get all swoony. And I’ll read that book again. Yum!
Vanilla custard–eeck! Elisa, you make me laugh. Perhaps Regency readers are more history buffs so want everything exactly right, or at least as it fits their perception.
And that’s a whole other question–do you write it wrong if that’s the common perception or go with correct and have everyone screaming?
I asked the question about mistakes because I was reading a book the other day (a horse book, naturally) and in the first chapter there were a few things happening that were simply unbelievable.
Ah, animals. My sweet spot.
I’d been thinking that I’m fairly tolerant of author errors, but then you said the magic words.
If I were reading a book involving animals, and something occurred that made me realize that the author didn’t really know what she was talking about, I’d be taken right out of the story. I’d probably consider putting it down right away, so the story would have to compensate for her lack of research.