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It Ain’t What You Say, It’s the Way That You Say It: A Discussion on Critiquing & Judging
 Posted by Vivi Andrews Dec 14 2011, 1:00 am in contest judging, critiques, handling criticism I’m a stickler for semantics. To be perfectly honest, it baffles me how we writers can be careless with our words – especially when communicating with other writers who are going to pick apart every last syllable for clues and nuances. Yes, the feedback you give is important, but in my opinion the way you choose to phrase your feedback is equally vital (so perhaps the title of this blog should be It Ain’t Just What You Say, It’s Also the Way That You Say It). Now, I am the first to admit that every writer’s process is different. Every writer has different needs in a critique partner or beta reader – and those needs can change depending on where you are in your writing process or your career. For that reason, I’m not going to talk about what we all universally SHOULD do as beta readers & judges. Instead I am going to talk about what I need, and consequently what I strive to provide when I am judging and critiquing (though I am sure there are many times I fall short of my own standards, I am learning as I go and this is simply what I’m shooting for now). I hope you will chime in with your thoughts and preferences in the comments – especially if they are wildly divergent from my own. Before we start, I want to acknowledge that critiquing is HARD. For all the talk of East German Judges, I don’t believe anyone actively wants to derail another author’s dreams. Critiquing is a massively time-consuming task and we do it because we want to help others find their way along their writing journey just as we are helped. But sometimes the best intentions need a little help from semantics… So here are my tips: 1) Provide positive as well as negative reactions. When the reaction is negative, ALWAYS give more detail. A frowny face or randomly highlighted sentence is not nearly as useful as “The wording of this phrase confused me and I had to read it multiple times.” 2) Make suggestions, but avoid issuing commands. (I also try to avoid phrases like “you need to/have to/must/should”). I’m obstinate; I react badly to commands. “I’d like to see A” “I suggest B” “If you do X, it will have Y effect” or even “Can you do Z?” are all much easier for me to stomach than “Cut this” and “Rewrite that” and “He should say this…” 3) Focus on your reactions as a reader rather than what you would do if you were writing it. The benefit of having a writer read your book is that they can then analyze why they reacted a certain way as a reader, not so they can rewrite your book in their image. 4) Listen to what the author requests – if she asks you to check for typos, it isn’t your place to demand she rewrite the entire first third of the book in a new POV. But if she asks you to tear it apart and find every flaw, don’t just tell her “It’s wonderful. Don’t change a word.” Unless you never want to beta read for her again. 5) Don’t assume you know why an author made a choice. I’ve heard both: “I know you were trying to keep it under the word count so you cut the spark out of your writing voice to keep it short” and “I know you were trying to keep it under the word count so you made the ending really abrupt and choppy” – on books I wrote with no conscious thought to word count restrictions. (One of which the beta reader didn’t feel the need to tell me she thought until after a reviewer had pointed out the same issue in the published work.) Keep your assumptions between you and your diary. Telling the writer why you think she made the conscious choice to screw up isn’t going to make her feel better. But DO tell her if you think there is a flaw – before a reviewer points it out. 6) Try not to fall in love with your own cleverness. (This one is hard for me.) The job of a beta/judge/critiquer is not to be funny. What we may think is funny is often sarcastic and not particularly nice. If you need to be witty, I’d recommend going through once and putting all your wit into your comments. Then go through your comments a second time and rephrase every one until they are helpful. Don’t change the meaning, just alter the delivery. 7) Be SPECIFIC. Highlighting a sentence or paragraph with the phrase “bad writing” (yes, I’ve gotten this one) is not going to help the author fix it. What made it bad? Details, baby. Details are king. But that’s just what I want. And every writer is a speshul snowflake with unique needs. What do you look for in a beta/judge/critiquer? Do you employ the same techniques when you are performing those roles? Share:
              
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31 Responses to “It Ain’t What You Say, It’s the Way That You Say It: A Discussion on Critiquing & Judging”Leave a Reply |
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These are all good. In your beta readers defense, sometimes there is an “oh, yeah” moment, where you realize you thought it but at the time it wasn’t fully formed enough to say. Also, I think there is a natural limit on how much feedback we will give. I was critiquing someone’s chapter and I had a few things in mind to say at the end. But then I got to a big problem, at least in my mind. So I spent a lot of time explaining what I saw as the problem and how it might be fixed, and little-to-no time talking about the earlier impressions. It just paled in comparison, and also maybe I didn’t want to make the person feel bad, but it’s hard to say exactly. Mostly, it’s just a natural thing.
The main thing I wanted to add was that, even if you’re line edit critiquing, to approach it as a reader. There was an agent who said this, but I don’t remember who. But basically, only mark things that really stand out at you. I think the newer critiquers sometimes tend to over-edit, marking every little change they can think of. To a certain extent, it’s not a sustainable pace. But aside from that, it often ends up interfering in the voice quite a bit, actually changing the voice to match that persons. In those cases, the critiquer should take a step back, or if they really find it untenable to read as-is, the relationship may not work.
Yep, reacting as a reader is definitely key. And none of this was meant as an attack on beta readers – just my personal preferences and what I try to do. I’m sorry if any of it seemed overly harsh toward beta readers/judges/CPs. I guess I should be more careful of my words.
This is excellent, Vivi. I think judging and critiquing are skills that don’t come naturally to a lot of people, me included. (There’s a good article about the difference between the two here – http://thesandy.org/sandy_tips.php#WrT_DJC)
When I first started critting for friends, I was too scared of hurting their feelings, so I tended to hold back and wasn’t very effective. Now I’ve developed (I hope!) a way to be both tactful and helpful.
I recently entered one ms in two different contests. In the first contest, Judge A seemed exasperated and sarcastic in her comments. She said she wanted to stop reading after my heroine did ‘X’ early in the pages. Indeed, there were no more comments from her after that note and I got a low score. In the second contest, Judge B tactfully explained why certain aspects didn’t work for her, and gave as much praise as constructive criticism. I much preferred Judge B’s approach and that’s the kind of judge I want to emulate.
Thank you for the interesting link, Vanessa! And it sounds like Judge B was a gem.
Critiquing and judging are certainly not skills that came naturally to me either. It’s a constantly evolving process for me. Learning what’s effective for me and translating that to the feedback I give as well. Kudos on finding your judging stride, Vanessa. Anything in particular that was an “ah-ha” moment for you?
Vivi, I’m not sure if there was a single “ah-ha” moment. I kind of gradually learned how to be a better critiquer/judge from my own CPs (waving at Anna Campbell and Stephanie Kuehnert, to name a few!). Both of them are great at the kiss-kick-kiss method of giving feedback. That is, sandwiching bad news between good news. But even the bad news is delivered in a constructive way.
Critiquing definitely differs from writer to writer which is why it is so hard to find a good crit partner. I don’t think I’m particularly good at it, and my first disclaimer is that sometimes I don’t know how to explain why it doesn’t work so I’ll have to show you how I’d fix it. I also disclaim that it’s my opinion and that means diddlely in the world of publishing so toss it out the door if you want.
In the past, having someone show me has always worked better. One of the best critiques I ever got was in the Golden Pen. Whoever that judge was tore that first chapter apart and showed me how to fix it and told me why I wasn’t finaling in contests. It was specific, encouraging, and after I looked hard at her advice, I applied it. The next contest I entered was the GH and I finaled in it.
So for me, I like being shown how my statements can be made stronger, how my description distracts, and how my structure is shaky. Be specific.
I tend to do this as well: show how I’d fix it. I always add that they should see what their other CPs say, and if no one but me has an issue with it, then toss my opinion out a window. I tend to be critiqued in much the same way. If a CP can give me a concrete example of what they’re talking about, I’ll often say, “Oh yeah. I can see how that would work better in this situation.”
I also like to say that the critique-ee should ignore everything I’m saying if it doesn’t resonate with their vision of the book. Such a tricky business when it’s so much opinion and so little fact.
Concrete examples of how to fix a problem cab be so helpful, but do you ever find that it tips over into rewriting the book? Maybe as long as it doesn’t threaten the author’s voice, but is about making the plot or character arcs more effective?
One of the things that I’ve always hated in comments on my writing (and this is a controversial point, I know) is really vague advice like, “deepen this character’s emotions.” The problem for me with that advice is that if I had known how to do it, I would have. I prefer practical suggestions to *show* me what that might look like. I might not take those suggestions–it’s my book and my writing–but I need to *see* how it could be done before I can really apply that advice.
When I give a critique, I tend to follow that preference and make suggestions about *how* to do something. One of my critique group partners (we’re a group of three) laughed once about the comments Michelle and I gave her. She said she reads our comments next to each other, because Michelle explains why something has to change, and I tell her how to do it.
But sometimes I worry that my comments end up feeling dictatorial (what Vivi is talking about in #2). So far no complaints about it from my critique partners, so I figure that style of commenting is working for them, but it means I probably wouldn’t be a good critique partner for everyone.
So I figure the “East German Judge” is usually just someone with a very different critique style than mine. Or, hey, occasionally on drugs
It sounds like a good “showing” or “how” critique is quite popular. I would always rather know what the problem is and find a way to fix it myself, but that’s a personal preference. And number two is more about how we phrase our suggestions than the content of them. Suggesting a change rather than dictating it, you know?
Vivi, great suggestions! I’m definitely of the opinion that positive feedback is just as important as constructive advice. I’ll often write my thoughts down as I’m reading through a CP’s chapter, then I’ll go back and read over my comments a second time to see if I need to rephrase anything. And I always add a disclaimer that they should feel free to disregard anything that doesn’t work for them or their stories. And I’m perfectly okay if they do exactly that: toss out whatever doesn’t resonate.
I’ve found that the whole critiquing process makes me feel more secure about my work…gives me a shot of confidence when I turn it in to my editor (knowing that several other people have read through it first and caught any major characterization problems, etc). I know that’s not true for everyone. And, as you said, each writer has their own process.
Thanks again, Vivi! Great post!
It is a real level of security, isn’t it? I never feel like a book is done until several people have read it and given me feedback. I can’t imagine writing without beta readers & CPs. Soooo valuable! I’m such a bad judge of the quality of my own work. Sounds like you have a very beneficial CP relationship, Tina!
Contest season is upon us! Good timing on this, Vivi!
I think the most valuable lesson I ever learned about critiquing – and one I try really hard to follow when I critique or judge – is to provide feedback in context with my own reaction or perception.
Consider the difference in the following two snippets of feedback: “You confused me when…” vs. “I was confused when…” In my mind, It’s a minute but significant difference. Which phrasing seems less, well, judgmental? Demonstrates more care and respect for someone’s work? Might help someone feel less vulnerable about submitting their work for critique?
It might seem odd to say this, but when I critique or judge, the feedback is all about ME – MY reaction, MY perception – provided to the author for their information, in good faith and using my strongest craft knowledge, but bottom line is that the author might entirely disagree with me, and is entitled to do so. My opinion is my opinion, and that is all. For that reason, my critiques are loaded with “To me”, “I feel”, “I thought”, “For me.” I also feel that the word SHOULD should be eliminated from a judge’s vocabulary.
IMO, judges worth their salt can find the words to convey even very frank feedback without tearing someone else down. We’re writers, right?
Yes! This. You said it all.
AGREED!
I do this, too. I feel like it’s the most gentle way of going about it, and it also prevents me from speaking as though my reactions would be shared by all readers who might pick up that entry. Even so-called rules are very often in the eye of the beholder, and a judge has no right to assume otherwise.
Vivi this is an excellent tool.
For me critiquing is harder than hell.
I approach a critique with the attitude this is the author’s story not mine. I never set out to change the characters or plot. But if you ask my opinion I’m going to give it to you. The only remarks that I make in the actual manuscript are positive ones. Like- this was brilliant, loved this, great hook, etc.
Repetitive words catch my eye almost immediately. It doesn’t bother me if someone uses Had or Was or one of those other words we’re told are no-nos. What bothers me is there’s 23 of them on the same page. If there is an abuse I will highlight and ‘suggest’ they find another way to write the sentence eliminating the word. In most cases the sentence doesn’t even need the word, it can just be deleted. I think I noticed this because the repetitive word monster frequently gets hold of me. There have been a few times when I have rewritten, or restructured, a sentence or paragraph using the author’s own words simply to give an idea of how it could be changed. If I come across what I perceive as a craft problem I explain exactly what I’m having a problem with, ask questions and suggest references.
Isn’t it interesting how our early weaknesses turn into strengths we are acutely aware of as we progress as writers? Sounds like you are very savvy about repetition now.
Using ONLY positive feedback on the manuscript is a very interesting idea too. I feel like it would discipline you to focus on the positive and take out the tendency to nit-pick on anything unimportant. Very smart tactic, Rita!
I fear I fall into the knit-picky category as a judge. I had one GH entry where the prepositions on parade had me gnashing my teeth. Did I really need to know the variety of hedge (complete with leaf-size and color) lining the garden path as she went on, under, around, and through every conceivable path, dog track, leaf, and vine? UGH!
Ofttimes when critiquing, I find myself at a loss to explain why something strikes me wrong. Luckily, Laurie knows me well enough to intuit my reactions. Usually, the problem is a fake- or falseness within the characterization; the character written just wouldn’t do that! Even so, it’s often hard to verbalize concisely, but Laurie and I have been together long enough to overcome that.
I agree, however, that noting the good is equally important to highlighting the bad. By doing so, you let the writer know she has talent, it just needs a bit of polish, and as Mary Poppins would say, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down!
Excellent and timely post, Vivi!
With this particular medicine, it might be easier to swallow with a whole gallon of sugar.
I’m so protective of my work – if a critique feels like an attack, I won’t learn anything from the feedback, I’ll be too busy arguing with it. What a waste of time for BOTH the reader & me!
And I LOVE your ability to nit-pick. It helps me be all that I can be–as an author. (I’ve been watching too many Army recruitment ads.)
I’m terrified of letting others read my words. Crazy, yes, I know. Doesn’t bother me as much to sell my words to random strangers. Again, crazy. I’m bad about submitting to agents, publishers or reviewers. Hate rejection.
As a critiquer, I often forget to point out the good. I’m on a mission to find the “problem” and gently (I think I’m gentle) point it out and “suggest” a change. Actually, I think I’ve alienated a few people with my critiques and try to avoid doing them (except a select few – you know who you are). I’ve even sort of stopped judging contests.
For the record, I’ve always found you extremely gentle. And you always have fabulous suggestions, even if I can’t always figure out hot to pull them off.
This is a fabulous post, Vivi! I agree with everything that’s been said here. I always like to point out both positive and negative when I’m critiquing. I also find that for me, I have to read through something completely before I can see where it might not be working. So sometimes I feel like I’m not making a lot of comments on the document and worrying that I’m not being critical/helpful enough, but once I get to the end, I can look at the big picture and point out where motivations need to be shifted, or whatever.
When I receive a critique, I definitely prefer the critiquer to focus on story elements rather than voice/sentence structure. I’m at the point where I’m fairly confident about my writing style, so unless something comes off as awkward, I don’t want someone trying to change my voice.
I feel like it’s natural to be protective of your voice (or maybe I want to think that because I’m so defensive of mine!), but fixing a plot hole is on the more objective end of the scale. Though even when I’m saying a plot device didn’t work for me, it’s always the fact that it didn’t work FOR ME, not that it’s wrong, you know? We all have our buttons as readers – positive and negative.
Thank you so much for the tips, Vivi! I think my critique partners and I have our methods down pat, and as you suggested, we’re nice, but not TOO nice–we put the story first. It helps to remind yourself every now and then that it’s all so subjective. I always judge for our chapter contest and last year I spent extra time on an entry that was *almost* there. Some of the heroine’s actions just weren’t believable to me, and I didn’t think the story worked the way it was written. So I took the time to explain what didn’t work for me and why, and suggested alternatives. Two weeks later the author announced she’d sold the book–with the same version she’d entered in the contest. So obviously what didn’t work for me did work for someone else.
What a great story, Kathy! Perhaps that author will find your comments helpful in her editorial process even if they weren’t deal-breakers for the house that bought her.
Along the same lines, when I’m judging I try to remember that there are NYT best-sellers that just don’t do it for me, but other readers LOVE them. Such a subjective business.
Thanks!
What an amazing post, Vivi!!! These tips are so well though out and stated. #6 is awesome and one I suffer from too. Grrr… I have to realize, it’s not about me. I think I try to turn a potential negative into a “funny” negative. LOL. Doesn’t work too well.
I’m bookmarking this. Fantastic info!
Aw, thank you, Darynda! I’m all aflutter at the thought of bookmarkworthiness.
I’m learning a ton from the comment thread too…
Sometimes when judging a contest, you just have to bite your tongue. I’ve read a couple of mistakes that had me in stitches. The kind where I had to call my mother and read the offending section to her. (She had my wicked sense of humor and as a shut-in, doesn’t have anyone to repeat this to.) (Ooops, ended with a preposition.)
Once I’ve gotten the giggles out of my system, I can write a suggestion on the entry that I hope is helpful and serious instead of witty.
I’m sure I’ve made some of the same mistakes, and I’m glad the judges were kind to me, too.
A toast to the kind judges! May we all be at least half as helpful to others as they have been to us.