Posted by Elisa Beatty Apr 26 2011, 12:01 am in freelance editing, guest interview
Today we’re pleased to welcome Caroline Tolley, who’s spent two decades as a fiction editor—fifteen years at a major New York publishing house, and the last few years as a freelancer. In these rapidly-changing times for publishing, she’s got some useful insights about how the editing world has been changing, and about what aspiring authors should keep in mind as they work to make their manuscripts the best they can be.
Take it away, Caroline!
Do Editors Edit?
Do editors edit? Has the ever-changing world of publishing reached the physical page of a manuscript? That seems to be a hot topic these days, though in my nearly 20 years of being involved with the world of popular fiction for women, I may have heard this once or twice before. But the chatter seems to be louder these days. Why? And where do I fit in?
I am a freelance content editor specializing in women’s fiction. I have been working directly with authors for nearly 10 years. Prior to this endeavor, I spent almost 15 years on the front lines of commercial fiction publishing in New York as an Executive Editor at Pocket Books. I edited New York Times bestsellers, as well as books from first-timers. I edited while at the office; I edited at home; I edited on trips. I was always on the phone with authors discussing revisions, rewrites, ideas. I rolled up my sleeves and I edited any and all manuscripts that were my responsibility the same way; with a blue pen on paper and a stack of sticky notes nearby. I have since gotten rid of the sticky notes, but I still edit on paper. Given the popularity of editing electronically (the Track Changes method), I gather that this is one aspect of the process that may be on its way out, but I am going to be hanging on to my pen until the bitter end!
The rumblings about editing that have reached me out here in my small seaside village boil down to one thing: time. Editors and agents have less time nowadays to devote to the actual editorial process and the manuscript itself. And because of this, manuscripts need to arrive in pristine form because in many cases, they won’t be thoroughly edited. Editors are looking for complete works rather than partials and they are more critical in their assessments. They want it ready to go. For many, the time is just not there to devote to a brand new writer and their book. This is a sea change from years back. Authors who have been in the business a long time will probably tell you they spend less time than in the past talking with their editor about the quality of the writing. If messing with the book is going to take up time but won’t in the end, contribute to selling more copies, then it isn’t always done. Sales and marketing and publicity plans can be a larger focus for an editor. Editors are encouraged to focus on new acquisitions and how to get the best talent. Who can they lure away? What marketing gimmicks are working? Editors can spend more time in meetings than at their desks. Free time for some only comes late at night.
In some cases, only a cursory edit is done and then the book is sent on its way. Second edits? I would hazard a guess they are rare. Are the more seasoned editors mentoring the assistant and associate editors? And what are the implications of this if the answer is no? How will the skills be kept alive? I’m sure many of us have heard a friend or peer say proudly that his or her manuscript needed no revisions. Was that truly the case, or was something else involved? And then you hear a complaint about the quality of the fiction…Did anyone EDIT this?? How can they publish this?? Of course too, there are those authors who get their manuscripts back and the rewrites are extensive. This does indeed still happen, perhaps more often than we hear about. There are also agents that still edit and polish prior to submitting a clients’ work. In the past, an agent would hone the project and the editor would dig in to the manuscript after the contract is signed. Nowadays, odds are that isn’t going to happen in quite the same way.
Do editors edit? Yes and no; sometimes/depends.
So what choices do writers have when it comes to the editorial process in an ever-changing publishing landscape?
Some are surely fortunate enough to have found a talented partner or group that helps them hone their craft. They benefit greatly from insights, support and creativity given by other writers who no doubt can share what works and doesn’t work for them. This is a tremendously valuable asset to have and many, many authors have achieved success with this as their base.
And there are those writers who are perfectly content in their office, writing on their own, communicating with few, hitting bestseller lists with their stellar product.
Another writer may have found an agent and yet together, they are unable to move the manuscript in the direction they desire.
But what if you don’t fall squarely into a category? What if you are thinking of self-publishing? This is a popular option these days as so many writers feel what is offered in some cases by a publisher is less than generous, especially for new writers in the mass marketplace. The author then has to go it alone and wear many hats as a result. She must market and publicize at a minimum, by herself.
The rise in popularity of freelance editors is a by-product of this new reality. Authors are looking for options and hiring a professional can perhaps give them an edge. Being open to this kind of critical assessment may or may not be for you. But if it does appeal, one should research the editorial services being provided and in my opinion, connect with an editor who has experience editing books similar to your own.
Here is a peek through the window of how I like to approach working with authors…
I am a large canvas editor. I read with two hats on; my reader hat and my editor hat. I use my reactions on both levels to form suggestions for clients. I react as I read and clients can often find scribbles in the margins. I do not censor these comments or try to sugar-coat a reaction if it happens to be negative. I do not believe that it makes sense to wear kid gloves while working for a client. My job is to give the writer an advantage, if I can. My job is to assist the author in getting the manuscript as close to perfect as we can.
Stories need to be great. We’ve all heard this; at workshops, on tape, in critique group. The hook is key. Does it hold, lure to a satisfying ending? When I edit, I don’t follow a formula or have a checklist. I focus on the main characters; are they likeable; are they believable; are the circumstances believable. I have no problem with an old plot with a new twist. I look for pacing. I hate clichés. I hate cop-outs. I focus on tense. I focus a lot on point of view. Are there too many at one time? Is reading like watching a tennis match? Am I with one character enough to get a grasp on that character, or being moved onto someone else too quickly? Conflict is always a big issue for writers and seems to come up a lot in conversation. Does one character have something another character wants? If I am reading a love story, is there an obstacle that needs to be overcome? Does Life throw a believable curve ball at these folks?
Sometimes I do edit toward the market. Is it funny enough? Is it sexy enough? Is the police procedure creative? Is the puzzle hard to solve? Do I feel the jeopardy the character is in? Does the writer know where she/he would like this manuscript to end up? Is there an audience out there that might be the right one? Does the author peruse the shelves in the bookstore? Has the author done his/her homework in this regard?
I am not a proofreader or a copy-editor or a fact-checker. I am not a writer. I do not have books on my desk about style and rules. I have not written self-help books about writing.
A freelance job for me is not a quick thing. It takes time. I try to work at a good pace as I know there is an anxiousness to get results and move forward. But sometimes it just doesn’t work that way. I fly by the seat of my pants a lot. I listen to my immediate reactions a lot, both positive and negative. I think of myself as an author’s editor rather than a company person (so to speak). Editing for me is a truly enjoyable thing. It was always the favorite part about my job when I was in Corporate America. I think of my work as entering into short-term partnerships; helping to create something, making it great and then patting it on the head and sending it on its way.
Book publishing has changed, is changing, from years ago. Editors lugged bulky manuscripts home then; now they carry Kindles. Then we often edited at our desks; now, that probably isn’t encouraged. The Mouse clicks instead of a blue pen. Then, there were budgets for historical romances (albeit minimal!). Now? Not so much. It’s always been about moving the product, in as many quantities as possible. Now, perhaps doing more books with one author is preferred over focusing on many. The New York Times has an E-Book bestseller list; that fascinates me. And surely more changes are coming. We will adapt as we continue on to the next thing…I just hope that those of us who so enjoy working with writers can keep the art of editing (and our blue pens!) alive.
BIO:
I am a graduate of Skidmore College and hold a BA in English. My publishing career began after college when I went to work for the direct mail-order Book Clubs; The Literary Guild, The Rhapsody Book Club, The Book of the Month Club, etc. I moved on to Pocket Books, a division of Simon and Schuster, one of the largest publishers of commercial fiction in New York, where I worked for 12+ years, moving up the ranks to the last position I held as their Executive Editor. A number of my authors made appearances on the New York Times, PW and USA TODAY bestseller lists. A large number of the romance writers were RITA nominees and winners and Golden Heart finalists. I acquired brand new talent and worked with authors who penned in different genres. I traveled extensively to RWA conferences, spoke often, and even had my photo in the New York Times!
I have been freelancing for ten years on all genres of popular fiction; including YA, fiction for men, mystery, cop books, literary fiction and of course, romance. I am a stay-at-home mom to two sons who are all boy, all the time and a 95 pound Rhodesian Ridgeback who also happens to be male. I enjoy running on the beach, traveling, fine dining and reading. I can be reached at thebookeditor4u@optonline.net
Do you have questions for Caroline about the role of editors today? Ask away!
Welcome, Caroline! Thanks for being with us today!
It really seems to be the Wild West in the publishing world right now, and I have the feeling freelance editing is going to be a major wave of the future.
I wondering if you can tell us a bit about your own history as a *reader*? What kinds of work do you most enjoy reading? Were you a romance reader early on? How did you gravitate towards women’s popular fiction?
Hi Elisa and everyone! Sorry for popping in so late but just got off a plane!
I actually was turned on to the Daphne DuMaurier books and others of that ilk (Frenchman’s Creek) by my 11th grade English teacher. From there I read Barbara Cartland and fell for Laurie McBain (Wild Bells to The Wild Sky! Anyone remember THAT?). I read mostly all historicals; Woodiwiss, etc. When I entered the publishing biz, I branched out more and nowadays, I am a freak for the JD Robb series and Linda Fairstein…I do like Luanne Rice…but have for sure drifted away from my historical roots…
I read Wild Bells to the Wild Sky when I was fifteen and it remains one of my all time favorite romances. It wouldn’t be marketable today – all those lush descriptions and the hero and heroine don’t meet until about a third into the book, and even then she’s still a child. But it’s a great read.
Caroline, welcome! How exciting to have you with us! Track changes, I don’t get how to use it when I’m editing for someone or how to utilize it if someone has sent me an edited manuscript using it. Argh. Much prefer pen and paper for editing.
I noticed at the end you made mention of no budget for historicals, why is this? I am the age where I cut my teeth on historical romances and then they just went poof. Well, this last summer, I had surgery and I had my computer with me at the hospital so I could work (don’t ask about the quality of the work while on pain killers, lol). The nurses, of course, all asked what I was doing and a few mentioned they read romances and recently discovered historical romances (yes, they were younger than me) and why weren’t there more historical romances? I wish I knew.
Thanks again for your insights!
Hi Diana; I don’t want to be understood as making a blanket statement that there aren’t budgets for historicals at all…I think there might be but my point was, not a lot of money from publicity and marketing is thrown out there. I see more ads from Christian publishers and smaller imprints that I am not familiar with. The big houses still have budgets for those titles they are trying to push; or if an author changes houses, then you will see ads usually. But the average midlist historical, will get a jacket and a slot on a shelf.
gotcha. Mainly it’s like that with most midlist authors these days anyway, isn’t it? At least it seems like it.
Thanks for visiting the Sisterhood, Caroline. I found your post fascinating. I do think editing is a talent, or rather an art, and you seem to enjoy the capability to work a book over and help create a masterpiece for a reader.
I’ve heard complaints from many about the lack of editing…and boasts about the lack of editing. Um, don’t think I’d want an editor to tell me, “It’s good like it is, kid. Let’s print it!” I want my stuff worked over, stretched out, then put back together in the best shape possible. I think my editor is pretty good about that. Most think she’s pretty picky, which for me is a good thing
In this brave new world, I think the only way many publishing companies will survive is by taking care of their authors – including giving them good editing. To me, this explosion of self-publishing only helps the author in the end. We are the talent. We have the goods. Now who is going to serve us best? Big houses, small houses, agents, or ourselves (armed with freelance editors, graphic artists, and promotion venues)? I like where we’re heading.
Thanks for giving us your insights
Thanks for coming today, Caroline. Really appreciate your insight into publishing and, more specifically, editing. I think you’re going to be a very busy lady. What is the average turnaround time for editing a single title?
Hi Bev: The average turn around time for me? Always depends on the degree of editing: most of the time I work within a 4-6 week range.
People don’t realize that there are diff types of editors one can hire; copyeditors, fact checkers, line editors and developmental (what I do).
Thanks, Caroline. Four to six weeks sounds good. You’re probably going to have to clone yourself to be able to handle the mushrooming demand.
Welcome, Caroline! This was a fascinating look into the editing world. Like Bev, with the rise in self-publishing, I think you’re going to be very busy!!!
Caroline~
Great post! Very informative. My first question is pretty nitty-gritty: how much do you charge your clients? Is it by the page or a flat rate for the whole manuscript? How can a newbie writer know whether or not a freelance editor is worth his/her paycheck? What are the signs the editor is good, or not-so-good?
The publishing industry is indeed changing, fast and furiously. What do you see as the future for traditional publishing?
Thanks so much for taking the time today!
ooh, great questions!
Hi Lynda: The future of traditional publishing is anyone’s guess. I do believe that first-timers want to be published in print over digital and I don’t see that changing. I also think that like me, there are others out there who prefer to read an actual book or an actual newspaper, so I don’t see anything dying a slow death anytime soon. Traditional in-house publishing hasn’t changed THAT much; the day to day ops are pretty much the same and all the manuscripts still have to go to the oopyeditor and to page proofs.
I charge a per page fee depending on the level of editing needed and think I am on the inexpensive side given my 20 years in. You can send me an email to disuss further.
How to tell a good editor vs a bad one; there are tools out there like Editors and Predators; the Internet is always good; word of mouth; how many novels an editor has to his/her credit; if that editor has worked extensively in your genre; not hiring a technical editor or non fiction editor to work with you; getting a sample edit from the person you may hire…there are lots of places for writers to do due dilligence and they should!
Newbies MUST do their homework. It is essential.
Thanks Caroline!
It’s wonderful to have you with us, Caroline. Editing is definitely an art form that hasn’t gotten enough attention lately. I’m terrified of being an author that someone just lets loose on the world without a solid edit behind me. I have two editors at two different houses and the first thing I told them was that I was looking forward to the edits. I want to create a book that is amazing and that can’t happen without solid edits.
Here’s my question, what do you think about the self-publishing rise in reference to professional editing? I have to say, I’m concerned authors won’t go through that last stage of edits and flood the market with stories that aren’t ready for publication.
You know I’ve read this concern over and over lately with the rise of indie pubbing, and while I agree, I would NOT want to put work out there that is not ready, don’t you think with authors who do, that the market will winnow them out? Is it our job to take care of them? I mean, it’s only logical not to throw out work that is not ready, and if they mess up their career, lesson learned, go back to the drawing board and try again? (not trying to be controversial, but the whole concern of bad books out there and it’s our job to stop them, just puzzles me)
You’re right, Diana. It’s not our job to police other authors. However, I can see Shea’s point as well. ANYone can pub a book on Amazon and/or Barnes-n-Noble. (Did you hear about the guy who self-pubbed a guide for pedophiles? Major ick!) The indie outlets (Amazon, Barnes-n-Noble, Smashwords, etc) aren’t in the business of discerning what should or shouldn’t be published. Nor do they worry about the editing process. That’s our responsibility as writers. Whether we publish through an e-press, a tradition press or go the indie route, we must take pride in our craft and deliver the best product for the readers.
I think book blogs and review sites are going to become even more important as a result.
Yes, absolutely, Amanda!
I certainly don’t want to stop anyone from getting published. That’s not what I meant. I don’t believe you can ever have too many books to chose from. Personally, I can’t think of anything worse than putting out a book that isn’t ready. Sadly there are some people who won’t do the extra bit of work to make their stories shine. It’s just sad. And because of that impatience, those are the people who will give, and have given, self publishing a bad reputaion, and THAT affects people who have taken the time to make their stories shine. It’s a problem, is all I’m saying.
You are so right, Shea. There are many readers who won’t touch self pubbers now bc of too many bad experiences. But I think this is a temporary problem–meaning it will be gone in a couple of years when more and more name authors are self published–which is already happening only bc publishers have a hard time even coming close to Amazon’s 70% royalty.
Also, there are companies like Telemachus Press that do everything EXCEPT developmental editing (They do John Locke’s books- he has 5 or 6 in the Amazon top 100 right now). But they put their name on books and are a brand. Good editing will be part of that brand. These different companies are kind of like the new publishing companies, or publishing-lite, really.
But developmental editing like Caroline offers will only grow more sought after over time.
I think a lot of people’s fear stems from how hard it will be to find the particular sized needle you prefer in the haystack of published fiction as more and more people toss needles into the stack via many routes. Say you have an awesome book and get, I don’t know, Caroline to work with it, making it 3x as awesome. But you’re some nobody who, I don’t know, always blames stuff on her cat, and though your book is unsucky, you can’t get reviewers to read it. And there are ten million or so other books in your category! Just, you know, speaking hypothetically
. So that is a concern that SOME worry warts who blame things on their cat may have.
Blame it on the cat, lol! Even if it’s one among ten million, won’t your book be available as long as you choose for it to be? And over the years, surely you can manage to beg, plead, bribe for friends to read it and offer reviews for what a brilliant book it is and tag the book, and maybe you can even paste up posters around your hometown so eventually people will begin to find your book and then that word of mouth thing will take off? In the meantime, you’ve written more brilliant books (edited by Caroline) and now readers are hungry for your work? Ok, so maybe it takes you ten years to be an overnight success…lol. Used to happen in print publishing occasionally too, but I don’t think you get that long in print publishing any longer to be an “overnight” sensation. ?? OTOH, yeah, that can be depressing realizing it might take that long for your work to be “discovered” but this is one of those hurry up and wait businesses.
Certain people who blame things on cats may or may not have already been doing this for ten years… I really hate to say for sure since it’s entirely hypothetical.
That’s the thing, I don’t want anyone to sabotage their own careers by being impatient. I know, I’m a mother hen. It’s hard enough to get an audience when you’ve made all the necessary preparations. I want everyone to do well. (big sap that I am)
Hi Diana: I am learning about the self-pub biz myself. As I mention in my article, it seems rather overwhelming having to do it all yourself…I think that it is pretty clear through RWA and Writers Digest and other venues, that there are professionals readily available to help. I can’t gauge how many are going to bypass this critical step, but for sure there will be some who just focus on holding the book in their hand and could care less about a polished work of fiction. I had a client recently that didn’t add one drop of historical ref to her book; no sights, sounds, smells, dates, locations…nothing. And she expected this book to go to print. It takes all kinds!
Gee! Historical research is the whole fun of writing historical novels!
Caroline, Thank you for taking the time to be with us today. Editing is definitely an art. As you’ve mentioned, there are so many elements in producing a great story that need to be looked at with a certain eye and not necessarily the same eye. I’ve worked with three editors, so far, and each brought something different to the table, and taught me so much.
I’m an author thinking seriously of self-pubbing a work, and I would not consider doing so without having an editor reading it first. I write romantic suspense and I’d like to have an editor who is savvy in the genre. Do you think we will soon see free-lance editors listing their genre preferences? And, can you offer questions beyond their fee that authors might or should ask a potential editor?
Hi Autumn: I think the most important question is the freelancer’s experience, hands down. I don’t want to toot our horns, but those of us who have spent time on the front lines of the major New York houses, have a global grasp on how it all works. If you write romantic suspense then the editor needs to understand the balance you need to make this book work; the puzzle, the jeopardy AND the love story. You most certainly should ask for a sample edit. You should ask for a published book list IN YOUR GENRE, as well as the type of edit offered. And I can’t imagine editors listing preferences in the future if the freelancer biz grows by leaps and bounds…We set our own hours and our own schedules and I imagine try to bring in as much work as we can without compromising the quality of our editing.
Caroline, I’m back with another question. I know you can’t foresee the future, but what roles do you think agents will play in this new cyber-world? Do you think agencies might add free-lance editors to their payroll to work with their authors as a way to preserve their 15% royalty rate?
Sorry if I’m getting off subject a tad, and again, its your opinion.
Thanks.
Hi Caroline,
What a wonderful post on a subject that’s near and dear to my heart since I, too, am an editor by former profession. I’m more proficient in the micro-editing areas, that is the grammar, the flow, the pacing, the proof-reading, so as a writer I was always on the search for a good big-picture editor. I’m so fortunate to have found an agent who is phenomenal in that area, and she’s been telling me since we began working together just what you said here: a manuscript has to be 99% ready to go when she submits it, because it’s a new world “out there.”
My question is: once the story is honed, how important is the line-editing these days? I do find more technical mistakes than I used to, and I’m pulled out of a story when I find awkward sentences or grammar errors. Most of my writing colleagues and reader I talk to are not. This kind of makes me sad. Am I just being too picky, or is there still a place for those of us who are pathetic grammar ninjas?
Thanks very much for the fascinating look into your world!
Hi Liz: Grammar Ninjas are KEY. THe copyediting test that most publishers offer is barely passed by the majority that take it. I tried once and didn’t do very well, but then again, that isn’t what I do (thank the stars!). A very difficult job. My personal pref is to do the big canvas edit first and get that done done. Then move on to any line edits or spelling corrections. It just can’t be the first focus because the story has to stand out. If you get side tracked and distracted, you are missing the big picture. For me this is vital, but secondary.
Great post about the way book publishing has changed. I’m fortunate enough to have found an editor/mentor who used to be an agent and she goes over every single page of my books. She also doesn’t hold back when it comes to her critiques. Unfortunately not everyone can afford to do that and I would imagine that is what critique groups are for. Authors are asked to spend a lot more of their own money on getting their books marketed. Now I have to pay for a book trailer and my website design and all of this adds up to thousands of dollars!
Hi Caroline,
Very informative blog, thanks. Should an author use your services not only for self-publishing but before they submit to a tradional pulbisher? And if so, what kind a budget should they plan? Thanks, Marian
Hi Marian: Drop me an email and we can discuss this further!
But yes, freelancers work for authors that are thinking on both fronts; digital and paper at a traditional house.
I already posted once, but has anyone seen any editors offering “team” service? Like if Caroline hooked up with someone who was a proofreading guru and they offered a dynamic duo option? I know many manuscripts need a series of relatively compatible eyeballs to give them the best chance of sparkliness, and that might be something authors might be interested in.
Hi Jody: BRILLIANT idea; May I keep it?
My biz will DOUBLE. Like the architect and the contractor going into biz together; One stop shopping. GENIUS!
Thanks for joining us, Caroline. Your post has given us good food for thought, so I think I’ll just hang out here and read through all the questions and answers.
Me too, Cynthia! I’m already learning a lot just by reading the comments.
Thanks, Caroline, for being here!
I’m with you Cynthia. I’m learning a lot just hanging out and reading all the questions/discussions.
Thanks for being here, Caroline! Awesome post!
Thank you for the very interesting post, Caroline. I’m always fascinated by how this industry is changing. Do you think it’s possible with the rise of self-publishing that “edited by So-And-So” will come to help define a book almost like a publisher’s imprint as readers are looking for quality, polished work among the flood of books on the market?
Oh, good question.
Hi Vivi: Not sure about that…For me personally, that wouldn’t matter so much. If I were ghost writing, then maybe. But the book is the author’s creation. We never had bylines at the big houses but some folks are kind enough to get us in the Acknowledgements page. To do otherwise would seem a bit braggish.
I suppose I was looking at it less as bragging rights and more as an editorial brand that could be used as a selling feature to assure the reader that an unknown quantity self-pub author was at least going to be well-edited, if that makes sense.
Great insight into the mind of an editor! You sound an awful lot like my former editor turned freelance editor, Charlotte Herscher. I’m truly a better writer today because of her editorial guidance and attention for 16 books. (And until she moved to England and we switched to track changes out of necessity, I got back manuscripts with notes in the margins–I can work both ways.)
I’m very much of the opinion that all books are better because of editorial input. I’m horrified by some stories where editors send books directly to production with minor line edits, or only have one or two comments to address. (Believe me, I’ve laid in bed awake dreading the day when any of my books are sent directly to production!) On the flipside, I’ve heard from some friends that their editor’s have a different vision, or harp on issues that directly change the author’s voice or story. As an editor, how do you edit to strength an author’s voice instead of changing it, and how do you look at the story itself as a whole and as individual parts in order to strength what’s there without messing with the author’s story vision?
I would be interested in Caroline’s process of strengthening an author’s voice without changing it, too. It can’t be easy.
Hi Allison: I know of Charlotte and you are fortunate to have her to work with. She is Old School, like Moi.
The Million Dollar Question! I can only speak for myself obviously…probably the first thing and the last thing I say to prospective clients is that the book is THEIRS. No Ifs Ands or Buts about it. As their guide, I will do what I can to help mold the work, but if the author gets the comments back and says, “Something doesn’t feel right here”, then we go with that gut feeling. I have had clients who are writing straight when all I do is laugh. Perhaps then we try and get their natural comedic voice in, but most times, we shelve that project and start a fresh one! I don’t see how you can change VOICE. This is the “It” factor. Some folks have it and some don’t. Just like actors and rock stars and skaters. You can’t teach that. It’s what brings the cream to the top. I never mess with voice but I sure as hell have read hundreds of books where all the parts and ingredients are there; the guidelines have been met, but the result is blah. The story vision is a diff thing. This I will mess with. Much easier to play around with this and keep the vision believe it or not. It’s a puzzle being put together; its adding flesh to bones; its poking the protruding baby knee back into the belly, until it all sits comfortably again. I can’t describe HOW i do that; I just know when something isn’t right.
I know I’m lucky!
I love your analogy of putting the flesh on bones. That nails it for me. I can’t tell you how many times I’ll send something in and know there’s a problem at a specific spot but can’t see the problem, and Charlotte will say something and I’ll bang my head and think, “Why didn’t I see that???” I think editing is intuitive in many ways, just like writing. (For me, anyway.) Thanks for your comments. My daughter is considering becoming an editor and I’m always interested in the process.
Hi Caroline,
This is a terrific subject. I happen to be published the old-fashioned way, with a very young and talented editor who still drips red pen all over my manuscript, and I adore her for it. She’s even gone to second round edits on book that was problematic and helped me really dig deep and come up with something that was so much better than I was able to do on my own.
I’m not yet ready to flirt with self-publishing, but I can see that self-pubbing may become a necessity for authors who are trying to build a career and an income sufficient to suppport themselves. So I have a couple of questions:
1) Where would one find a listing of freelance editors and the kinds of books they prefer. If I’m looking for an agent or a publisher I know where to look for that info. Is there a central source, trade assocation for this?
2) And in the same vein, do you see a time where RWA might provide guidance, special membership categories, etc. for freelance editors, much as they do for agents and publishers? Do you think that woudl be a good or bad idea.
I remember back in the old days when we all thought it was terrible for anyone to charge a reading fee. I think those days are gone.
Hi Hope: Yes! Every one said don’t pay fees! A whole new ball game out there. I have a client who told me not too long ago that the PRO or PAN RWA group was compiling a list of recommended freelancers. Not sure this is up yet?
A lot of us went freelance when we became moms and there are many gals that I came up the ranks with that are out there still. You can Google some or use the Social media site LINKED IN to find quite a few. The RWA angle makes the most sense. I did offer a workshop topic for this years RWA NAtionals on whether or not freelacers were for you, but alas, they didn’t choose it. Maybe now with all the self pubbing hubbub, there will be greater interest!
Amen for second opinions and fresh eyes.
Oh, Lord, yes…it would be fabulous for RWA to have a list of reputable freelance editors on rwa.org, like they now have for agents.
Thanks for joining us, Caroline. I was wondering if freelance editors always work for author clients, or if some of them work for publishers to pick up the slack left by cutting the publisher’s workforce to the bone. Temporary or contract employees are the norm in other businesses. Is this happening in publishing as well?
Hi Kate: Yes, some houses still offer work to freelancers and I did this for many years while working for authors as well. Agencies do it as well. This is definately happening.
I feel very lucky to have an editor that got me and liked my heroine the same way I do.I feel like any suggestions she made benefited the story.
Like Jody I wonder if there will be team services for those wanting to self pub or even agencies that spring up offering services to take their clients straight to self pub.
Thanks so much for joining us today, Caroline. Though my publisher uses ‘Track Changes’ for editing and proofing, I admit that I edit and proof on hardcopy first, which is more effective for me. I’m also one of those folks who prefers to read physical books. I’m plumb screened and gadgeted out.
Thanks for being here today, Caroline. I’m finishing the editing process on my first book, and have learned SO much by working with a professional editor. As counterintuitive as it seems, more edits don’t mean the writing is weaker (which I worried about at first), they just make the book stronger. I learned that after a round of developmental and then several rounds of line edits (and now I’m waiting for copy edits). And if I ever went the self-publishing route, I’d invest the money in a reputable editor to make the best product possible.
Hi Caroline-thanks for posting!
I have to disagree with you about new authors wanting to be in print. I have been reading on a Kindle for 3 years now. And I have been self publishing for 2 years and am doing surprisingly well with only short stories available so far (working on some longer stuff now).
Editing is most definitely one of the defining qualities of a successful title, but not the only one. There are quite a few successful indies out there that are great story tellers who could use some good editing (Amanda Hocking?). But stories is what readers are buying.
However, as more and more writers self pub, editing will only become more paramount. And as you mentioned in your post, the unedited works simply won’t rise in the rankings. They won’t get the word of mouth publicity from readers–the true gatekeepers, and they will drop like a stone to the bottom of the heap.
I kind of view editors like a coach (and we writers are the star athletes, of course) that helps us work on our shortcomings and emphasize our talents.
Of course, since publishing is now essentially free, it seems like editing might be the new form of ‘vanity publishing’ to watch out for since the role of editing will only become more vital as time goes on. Predators and Editors will become more of a necessity. And, dare I say it, you will probably be able to charge much more bc of your pedigree. Freelance editors will be the new mechanics. We will all be looking for a good one that doesn’t overcharge us.
Anyway, thanks for your post. I enjoyed it.
Kendall Swan
PS-Appropo to this post: over on the selfpub oriented blog of JA Konrath is a post about editing. jakonrath.blogspot.com
Thank you so much, Caroline. Your insightful post on freelance editing is a topic I am woefully lacking in knowledge. It’s fascinating to hear how you work, as it is encouraging.
Jenn!
I found your article to be very interesting and know I will reread it again. There are so many things to learn and know in the writing world, but I love writing, the people I meet and putting words to the page. I write in the 1850 gold rush era and questioned why my stories are considered westerns when they are actually just stories set in that time period. Is it true that they are classified as such because heroines that live west of the Mississippi River are tougher and must adjust to harder times so they are automatically considered westerns?
Wow, thanks for being here, Caroline! What great insights. As a new author, I am still learning so much. One is the VERY different roles my editor and my copyeditor play. It’s such a different approach to the same manuscript. And you clearly do both.
And some great comments too! Everyone’s questions are so eye-opening.
Thank you again and good luck!
~D~
I *really* enjoyed today’s discussion, Caroline. Thanks for taking the time to be on the blog today!
I am signing off now! I really appreciate you all stopping by and sharing your thoughts and questions. Feel free to reach out to me in the future and best of luck to all of you with your writing endeavors. C
What a great post!!!
What a great photo!
I’ve had the pleasure of working with Ms.Tolley on a single title romance and thanks to her input a published author read the revised msc and referred me to her agent. And I became agented. Though I have not sold that story yet, what I learned from Caroline took me from so close to a first sale status where I had been languishing for quite some time..to a first sale.
Everything you learn from an excellent editor gets applied to everything you ever write. It’s a huge, huge growth curve.
Thanks for being with us today, Caroline! Some great discussions here.
Caroline will be back next month with some tips for polishing your manuscript before Nationals!! Stay tuned!
A very interesting and informative post. I’m glad I stopped by. This is my first time to visit this site. I’ll have to come back and visit more regularly. I will definitely check out Caroline’s post next month.
Thanks!
thanks for visiting with us Gabriella!
Hi Caroline, can you please name some of the authors you acquired during your time at Pocket? I know from the widely varying feedback I’ve had from multiple editors on the same ms that editors’ tastes are as subjective as readers’, and it makes sense to work with an editor who seems to like the sort of thing I write…
thanks
Abby
[...] to talk about the role of editors in the ever-evolving publishing world (you can read that post here). Today she has some great advice for how to get the most mileage out of what you learned at [...]
Can I post your publish to my blog? I will add a backlink to your forum. That’s one really candy post.